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I'm an ISTJ who has fallen for an INFJ. (With the exception of my introversion, my other preferences are midzone, so I'd like to think I can understand - using this term loosely - INFJ traits.) We've been dating for about 5 months now and everything was going great. About 3 weeks ago something happened (I cannot say what) that left me totally confused. I didn't think it was a big deal, but he did. After a couple of talks, he said that we could try again, but that he was going to need some time to get over this. He said that we would still talk, but so far it's only been superficial text messages. One of us will usually text every couple days just to say hi and the other replies to say hi, but not much more. I haven't seen him in two weeks.
Early on, we both agreed that we shared a unique and immediate connection that neither of us have ever felt before. And as much as it kills me to wait, I'm determined to give him the space that he needs, because I feel we had something real. Being both J's, I think we both have a need to make a decision, so I don't think that he would leave me hanging. Although when days pass without hearing from him, I can sometimes feel that way.
My question is... how much time does he need? Could this go on for months?
Early on, we both agreed that we shared a unique and immediate connection that neither of us have ever felt before. And as much as it kills me to wait, I'm determined to give him the space that he needs, because I feel we had something real. Being both J's, I think we both have a need to make a decision, so I don't think that he would leave me hanging. Although when days pass without hearing from him, I can sometimes feel that way.
My question is... how much time does he need? Could this go on for months?
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Re: INFJ needs space
Wed, September 16, 2009 - 12:20 PM"About 3 weeks ago something happened (I cannot say what) that left me totally confused. I didn't think it was a big deal, but he did. After a couple of talks, he said that we could try again, but that he was going to need some time to get over this."
Depends on what happened but if he said you that you guys could try again then his texts are his way of trying. It's going to take time, depending on what happened and the value he placed on it would determine how long. It has taken me years to really move through some things. But keeping in touch with you is a sign that he is not ready to completely close the door to this relationship. That says a lot because I can't speak for all INFJ's but we are usually either in or out, on or off. There is no...wait and see. I think whatever happened is just taking him time to process and heal or to think about things a bit more. It's best not to rush these things. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Wed, September 16, 2009 - 1:26 PMThank you so much for the reply. I've been using this time that we're apart to read up on both of our personality traits just to try and make sense of it all, and put myself in his shoes to understand where he's coming from. I also want to figure out for future reference how we can communicate better. Maybe this is for a different thread, but does anyone have any tips for better communication?
I don't take lightly how the said incident made him feel... I just wish that we could talk it out, but I understand that he needs this time to process and heal, like you said. I guess I'm just trying to get an idea of how long I will be waiting. Being an INFJ, do you usually have an idea of how long you will need? Or is it one of those things where he will wake up one day and say, I'm finished processing this; I'm ready to talk now. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Wed, September 16, 2009 - 10:12 PMI don't think there is a time frame necessarily. But there probably are things that will have to happen or be said before he will be ok.
Sometimes depending on the issue it's just time needed to rebuild trust and create a different foundation to start from.
It may be...depending on the issue, that he is just trying to get a different perspective or process all of the information.
As far as communication. Written is best. Confrontation face to face or trying to work out issues on the spur of the moment face to face probably is not going to work out well. However you could try to set time aside to invite him out to talk about the issue.
Like - "this Saturday would you be open to going for a walk and trying to talk about what happened. I would really like to work on this."
Give him prep time if you want to "talk" about it.
Like I said, it really depends on the issue. We can be very different than most people in what we feel offends us or crosses the line. With that said I think INFJ's are a lot more open and forgiving of some of the things that most people would think are unforgivable.
Good Luck.
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Re: INFJ needs space
Wed, September 16, 2009 - 10:41 PMI double what Shifting4now, said. But of course not knowing the issue it is hard to get more clear - for instance, if it was a breach of trust or something that hit at the core then a need to redefine safe zones - before processing can even happen - would probably be priority one. Personally I am a go with the flow person but if something crosses my DO NOT CROSS sign (rare, but BIG) then I can't even process, talk about it, or move forward through the issue until I have gone to my cave and re-grounded and redefined safe zone boundaries.
Like Shifting says if he's still writing (and it is not just out of guilt because he was the cause of the problem) then he hasn't withdrawn all the way. I'm trying to imagine what it would be like living with another INFJ, we'd probably hear that time-out bell a lot (and probably have to install openings where we could pass notes back and forth through the doors until we felt grounded enough to do face time.) I have had my husband use a trick when I was too deep "undercover" we'd spend a day communicating only through a note pad - worked wonders!
Good on you for taking the time to ground yourself too rather then just waiting. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Wed, September 16, 2009 - 10:58 PMMichelle... seems we were posting at the same time :)
Given that we have only been together for months, if this issue hit at the core, wouldn't he have been more likely to shut the door on this relationship without giving it a second thought?
Good tip on the notepad! I try to imagine what this relationship would be like in a few months from now. Surely this isn't the last time where we won't see eye to eye on something. Granted, it may not be as intense, but I just figure there has to be a better way for us to communicate. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Fri, September 18, 2009 - 11:17 AMI've got to agree with what everyone else has said. Rather than repeating all of it, I think the best contribution I can make is to add a little bit of male perspective to some of it.
It's really funny to me to hear other people having the same issues I do when it comes to talking about things. That's one of my favorite things about this tribe: the continual reaffirmation that I'm not alone and that there are other people like me out there :) Personally, it sends me into my terrified panic zone when a gal says to me that we need to Talk. Instant Fight or Flight mode. It's a survival thing at that point. Written communication is perhaps less personal, but it gives me more time to think about what I want to say and allows me to say what I want to say without being afraid that it will come out wrong.
When I read your first post I was hesitant to respond because I wasn't really sure what to say. Fortunately, some other folks jumped in there. What Shift and Michelle said are absolutely correct. We INFJ's are either ON or OFF when it comes to relationships. All or nothing, there's very little middle room. What I was initially worried about from your first post was that your relationship had already moved to OFF. I don't think so anymore, if he's still communicating with you. It's possible that it may have flipped to OFF, although even if it has that doesn't mean it's the end of the world, just that it's going to take a lot of work to flip the switch back to ON.
You mention being kind of surprised that he didn't just close the door without second thoughts because you've only been together a few months. This is just another fact of our all-or-nothing personalities. Once we commit then we COMMIT. We put everything we can into our relationships.
I had a hard time understanding how most of my friends could just casually date people. I've tried, and I just can't do it. As soon as we've been on a couple dates I'm ready to start working on building a serious, committed relationship. It's like I'm just hardwired that way. On the other hand, it means that I don't go on dates with people who I'm not interested in on that serious of a level. So even though you've only been together a few months, he's hesitant to completely abandon the relationship because from his perspective he's already practically married.
How much time do we need to process everything? It varies tremendously. It depends on how severe whatever happened affected him/. Some things I get over in a matter of days or weeks, other things are longer. One of the worst relationships I ever had was with another INFJ. We were both young, inexperienced, and dumb, and so it ended in an epic failure. I couldn't even be in the same room with her for three years without growling and hissing. Eventually, we started talking again and spent a few very intense confused weeks talking with one another, sharing our mutual frustrations, and apologizing for how severely we had hurt one another (I've still got emotional scars that I'm dealing with from that and we broke up 16 years ago). Since then we've been close friends, although dating again would be completely out of the question.
Back to talking about things... at some point I think talking is important. Even though I get so stressed out it makes me physically ill when I have those conversations, at some level I recognize it is important, and when it's over usually I feel better and whatever it is we talked about doens't bother me as much as it did before. It's a painful, uncomfortable process, though. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Fri, September 18, 2009 - 4:28 PMI can't tell you how much I appreciate all of your input. Thank you, Waylon, for offering the male perspective.
Before all of you confirmed that written communication is better than face to face, I had an email sitting in my drafts that I was hesitant to send. Well, after revising it 10,059 times and hearing from all of you, I decided to send it. I didn't ask when we could meet, I just shared some thoughts that had been heavy on my heart since our communication went from all day, every day to almost nothing.
After a couple days had passed and he had some time to sit on it, I gave him a text this morning and asked if we could meet on Sunday to talk. He texted back and said that he got my email and he didn't want me to think that he was ignoring me, but that he had a friend in town and had plans. After a couple more exchanges, he said dinner next week sounds good. Just like that.
The ON or OFF comments really made some things click for me. When we first got together, we both tried to take it slow, but it just didn't work out that way. Now I know why. But, I was totally comfortable with that. I'm in the same line of thought when it comes to commitment. This isn't a casual relationship for me... I wouldn't be fighting this hard for it. I'm definitely thinking about this for the long haul. Even though that might be the goal-oriented side of me, this is not a conquest. It's about the connection we have. Not sure why I felt the need to say that.
Waylon, I can't even imagine how that INFJ relationship must have been for you. I feel like I am barely scratching the surface of understanding these traits, and the complexity can be a little overwhelming at times. Which is why I really hope that we can find a way to communicate that will meet both of our needs.
Even though I'm so glad that we are going to meet next week (it goes without saying that I miss him so very much), I don't think I'll feel totally at ease about it until after we talk. Seems it is a painful, uncomfortable process for all of us.
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Re: INFJ needs space
Wed, September 16, 2009 - 10:42 PMThanks (again) so much for the insight... it has been most helpful!! -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Fri, September 18, 2009 - 9:18 PMBigheart,
I am glad you are willing to talk rather than dodge. INFJs hate it when people dodge things or beat around the bush. Let him know how you feel. Hold nothing back. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Sat, September 19, 2009 - 9:58 PMThanks for the advice, Ed. I will definitely keep that in mind. Shortly after we got together, one of the things I noticed about him was that he did not play the traditional "dating games." I found this refreshing and embraced it. I intend to continue giving him the same respect. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Tue, September 22, 2009 - 8:41 PMI'm back.
So we met tonight, supposedly for dinner, but we didn't end up eating. We parked ourselves on a bench and after some small talk, talked about the incident. He said that he's still not OK with it and doesn't know if he will ever be... all he knows is that for right now, he's not OK. And that he didn't want to start over or give this relationship another chance until then. As much as that was not what I wanted to hear, I respect that. I know that it wouldn't be right to be with someone that had that lingering in back of their mind. I totally feel helpless because I know there is nothing I can say or do. All I could say was how emotionally committed I am to him, and that I was not ready to walk away.
After almost a couple hours passed, he said that we would still talk, and that we would still see each other (I assume occasionally). He walked me to my car, we had a lengthy hug, and I felt like I never, ever letting go.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I hanging on to a glimmer of hope that will eventually fade away, or is there a chance he will come around? I realize no one can know for sure... just wondering why he is willing to keep the communication open -- not that I'm complaining. Does the same On/Off apply here as well? -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Tue, September 22, 2009 - 9:08 PMHate to be terribly honest Bigheart, but I feel that you two are not compatible. He probably sees something you don't, that is how INFJs are. It may be good for you, but not for him. You guys will never keep this relationship going if there is not enough consistency in communication. There are always troubles, but one has to be the extrovert and reach to the other. Neither of you are.
Go for your opposite, an ENFP. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: INFJ needs space
Tue, September 22, 2009 - 11:32 PMI appreciate your candidness, Ed. While I can understand what you are saying about seeing eye to eye, I'm not sure if I get the part about consistency in communication since we were talking about this for two hours (both of us participating). Admittedly, I was the one prompting the flow of the conversation. After replaying the evening in my head, it seems to be about whether or not he can be OK with what happened. Maybe I'm just not understanding... -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 4:50 AM -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 8:00 AMThank you. I know what I need to do. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 7:46 PMI have to say I think your INFJ is acting odd. Seems a little "P" like to me.
I don't think this could be a good relationship for you, he's emotionally holding you hostage.
Is he seeking revenge of some sort? Like retribution?
I dunno...this all seems very strange to me.
I'm very sorry this didn't turn out the way you would have liked it to.
I think with INFJ things are so situational, and it's unfair sometimes to the other person involved because obviously most people can not read another person's mind, but for some reason I think a lot of time we want to be in sync so badly with the other person we think they should just "know" where our line is.
I really am sorry this didn't work out. You seem to have good intentions.
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Re: INFJ needs space
Thu, September 24, 2009 - 7:54 AMRight?! It has been almost a month now and he's still not sure if he can be OK with this. Retribution? I don't know... I don't think so. He said that he didn't expect for me to wait. He still misses me, but just doesn't know if he can get over it right now. I can't figure it out.
"I think with INFJ things are so situational, and it's unfair sometimes to the other person involved because obviously most people can not read another person's mind, but for some reason I think a lot of time we want to be in sync so badly with the other person we think they should just "know" where our line is."
I'm really glad you said that. When we discussed this incident, I told him that I had no idea that he felt that way. The topic had come up a couple of times before where he could have easily stated his position on it, but for whatever reason chose not to. Anyway, when I said that he said that it should just be "implied." Maybe he expected me to have stronger intuition on this, but all I could think was was he that narrow-minded to think that everyone feels the same way about the same thing, to the point where he thought that setting the expectation was not necessary? And even so... it happened, I've expressed my genuine remorse for the way it hurt him, and you can bet that it would never happen again. Why is it so hard to decide if you're going to forgive someone that you obviously still deeply care about? In my relationship experience, if you are committed to someone, as long as it is not malicious or intentional, you have to be willing to forgive, as they will inevitably disappoint you at one time or another. It's just part of being a unique individual.
I guess these are all questions that will go on unanswered. Thank you for your sympathy and kind words. I'm really sad about this, too. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Thu, September 24, 2009 - 4:56 PMHe is just being stubborn. I am the say way. Did you ever tell him what to do? INFJs (at least me) hate (more so than many types) being told what to do.
He wants you to back off.
If he says something, he will mean it. He is giving you signals to back off. If he says to back off, that means likely forever. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Fri, September 25, 2009 - 7:47 AMNot given the information of what happened it's al little hard to determine why he is behaving this way. Is there now way you could share this?
With that said - without the information - I think this type of behavior and response is childish.
This would make me feel like he is stringing me along and playing emotional games and I couldn't stand for that.
I really think these actions, in this vague situation, are more "P" like.
Ed, you even sound like you are giving her much more confirmation and answers than she is getting from this guy.
Find someone who matches your needs for communication and closure. I think that will make you feel more secure and happy, because it sounds like you don't even care if it's not the answer you want to hear, you just want a clear answer, and that's fair enough.
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Re: INFJ needs space
Fri, September 25, 2009 - 8:06 AMok I can't type today.
I meant Is there NO way you could share this.
sorry.
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Re: INFJ needs space
Fri, September 25, 2009 - 10:54 AMIsn't it buggy that you can't edit your previous posts? Not that it matters much now, but I wanted to fix my OP to say that all my preferences were mid-zone, including my introversion, but had already posted and figured I'd just let it go.
Anyway, it's of a personal nature, and I don't really feel comfortable sharing it on a public forum. Suffice it to say, he talked to one of his closest friends about it to see if he was overreacting and she happened to agree with him. While, I talked to a few of my friends about it, and they all felt the same as I did - not big deal. That's why I don't understand how the line on this can be so black and white, and to the point where it's unforgivable.
Also, is it really a matter of if he *can* be OK with it, rather than whether or not he *wants* to be OK with it? I know I'm going to kill myself with these questions. And... if he wouldn't say anything he doesn't mean (and I do know him to be this way), then saying that we would still talk and see each other doesn't really say "back off forever" to me. Plus, he knows my brother, and apparently asked him yesterday how I was doing.
Honestly, I think he's torn... between this thing that crossed his value system and his feelings for me. When I saw him earlier this week, after he walked me to my car and we embraced, I saw how emotionally distraught he was. He even waited for me to pull away and gave a wave bye before he walked away. But I can definitely see the "P" here.
All I know is that this whole situation has put my heart through the ringer, and right now I just need to step away and breathe.
shifting4now and others, I know it's been said, but I really do appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me. Like you said, I'm just searching for clarity. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Fri, September 25, 2009 - 4:17 PMIf he is still trapped in the ego, looking for evidence of love from the outside, and whatever you did meant to him that you do not love him or whatever, he will pick another topic in the future that will demonstrate that you do not love him, and on it goes. I am an INFJ and was trapped in the ego untiil age 45. That is how I saw things. I am so thankful that I graduated out of ego consciousness.
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Re: INFJ needs space
Sun, October 25, 2009 - 7:42 PMHows everything going now?
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Re: INFJ needs space
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 9:19 PMI am an INFJ and when the shit hits the fan I go quiet for a few days, but I don't know how to break the ice or say sorry when I have to and stop the silence that's why my husband is fantastic. He hugs me lol! He does more than break the ice he gets into my personal space and says "sorry" or "it's ok". He has been a great conflict resolution asset lol!
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Re: INFJ needs space
Mon, October 26, 2009 - 6:49 AMI have to say that for me, generally when I think something is a huge dealbreaker, it may feel like it at the time but generally can be worked through. Unfortunately, I have not always worked through them...like someone said earlier, we're usually in or out. There can be a big urge to cut your losses if you don't feel understood or in sync, that I think ISTJs don't have as much (at least not the one I was with for a long time). I don't know if that helps at all...it really depends on what it is and where this person is developmentally. At least you can be fairly sure he won't lead you on for an extended period of time...if there's a decision made, I'm sure you would know about it in short order. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Mon, November 16, 2009 - 7:41 AMSomeone asked how things were going, so here's an update for those interested:
I decided to take a step back. I needed to let it go and just breathe. So, that's what I did. Being in this technology age, there were still ways that we were "connected" and along the way, it was evident that we were still not done. We got together for dinner once last week and talked a few times, but not about anything heavy. It was actually nice and refreshing to not jump right back in with the emotional part of it, even though we both knew that something would eventually have to be said. But, at the same time, I think it was important to find that foundation of friendship since we had not shared that in so long. After that meeting, we had a few email conversations, sharing all the things that had not been said. It was good. Very good. Yesterday, we took a long day trip and enjoyed each other's company, and discussed it a bit more. He brought up on his own that he wanted to work on communicating better with me. I said that I wasn't expecting for him to completely change, especially something that comes naturally to him, just to meet me half way. Obviously I'm not an "N" and even though I've gotten better about it, what if I miss it? We agreed that the important stuff needs to be said.
I feel we are in a good place right now. We've defined some things in our relationship as far as how we want to proceed -- key word: proceed :) After all that has been said and done, I think we both have had some personal growth from this whole experience. -
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Re: INFJ needs space
Thu, November 19, 2009 - 1:30 PMThis is a good thing. I'm glad you are both moving forward in a healthy way.
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