Tribe.net. Local Connections Nat http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#2f4e3069-4ccd-4441-bfec-e57864e9f8c5 2009-07-09T01:10:16Z 2009-07-09T01:10:16Z

Sometimes I feel like letting others in on what I perceive to be obvious after I discover it and think it through. Here's a little musing: We spend most of our lives trying to put round pegs into square holes... trying to make that which doesn’t measure up, satiate our infinite desire for love. We get by on the right nows, the what ifs, the that’ll dos. If we are to find the right combination to the lock, whom do we give chances for turning the key? To the broken, the bruised and the feint of heart: It's true that we are once bitten, twice shy, leveling our defenses up against foreseeable heartbreak. 'They' say it's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all. What is our love worth compared to the value of our hearts? What gives our hearts value and truly, what is love? Blessed are those who mourn, for without mourning there is no caring. Our hearts are actually valued by our capacity to love. We mourn for them *because* we have loved... but we cannot cease to love. Only then do we become heartless.

Nat 2009-07-09T01:10:16Z Rachel http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#7a257b48-5aaf-4f56-a31a-7368d2dfb1b1 2009-07-08T20:24:28Z 2009-07-08T20:24:28Z

"the one" says that we have to have our own stuff straightened out first - live without love before we can appreciate it - which is probably true. He doesn't want to lie to me, says I deserve better, and of course everyone deserves the truth. We know we can't fix the other's problems. The only problem is, if I go with my heart and believe we'll overcome all of it, and we end up not being able to follow through...well, I guess it's not really a choice. I won't be bitter just because I'm afraid of the risk. I don't want to date anyone else, anyway...so all I can do is work on me and see! I pray that my intuition will hold true, as it always does.

Rachel 2009-07-08T20:24:28Z Waylon http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#f265150e-ad92-4e61-8dd2-9239d2fc9e90 2009-07-06T15:16:35Z 2009-07-06T15:16:35Z

Michelle: "LOL! Waylon, for some distorted reason those slips make me feel better..I guess it's nice to know we all in this human experiment together." Yeah, it's all a careful deliberate ruse because people would be too intimidated if they realized just how incredibly perfect I really was ;) Or maybe they would be too amused to find out just how full of sh*t I really am ;) Plenty of fertilizer here! Michelle: "as long as you both shall find deep learning, growth and respect in being together". That statement really resonates with me. I think that's a good way to put it.

Waylon 2009-07-06T15:16:35Z $item.owner.firstName http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#5c0674f0-b88c-4a5d-a408-415aa9dcba82 2009-07-03T17:57:03Z 2009-07-03T17:57:03Z

"accidentally" expanding I have no qualms with at all... it's more like a natural progression, as opposed to something forced and unnatural... and being balanced and accepting of others I also agree with..& I do practice this. The the only thing that is so frustrating is when people are told, and are convinced by others that they are not acceptable, not desirable the way they are...that they should go against their natures.....it is all so upsetting to me because I have known those that have essentially destroyed themselves due to this. I have also dealt with this in my own past. That is not to say, that I am adversed to self-improvement because that is of course something different...we should all work to better ourselves because "we" want to.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-07-03T17:57:03Z Michelle http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#d1b26e24-4d3d-423a-9db1-0067aa8156a9 2009-07-03T04:56:05Z 2009-07-03T04:56:05Z

**"Also make sure you know yourself first"** Amen!! Barring that put on your seat belt 'cause the ride will get bumpy for a bit!

Michelle 2009-07-03T04:56:05Z $item.owner.firstName http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#865ae2b1-d54f-4241-8af3-feeb8b78120c 2009-07-02T23:37:14Z 2009-07-02T23:37:14Z

You all make valid points. I must have been misinterpreted when I said "become more like your opposite". I just meant to not be afraid to try new things that an opposite of you would do. You are absolutely right that you should be yourself. By doing some things a person who is the opposite of you would do you will get a better understanding of why they do those things and what appeals to them about it. If you can at least understand them a little, you will be more accepting and more open to people different than yourself. An example that I mentioned was going out dancing or hanging out with people. I hate dancing (and still do). At times, I was literally "forced" to go out with people and become more social. Though I did not like it, I became more understanding of different people and learned a lot about myself in the process. I still believe that the best match for an INFJ is an ESTP. Also make sure you know yourself first. Be careful with these personality tests and answer them honestly, not as the person you wish to be.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T23:37:14Z Michelle http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#aa426f6f-54f1-4777-bc1f-90a64dad1641 2009-07-02T21:42:30Z 2009-07-02T21:42:30Z

I'm with you Siieveh, I like being who I am (especially these days). I tried for years to be more extroverted and goal oriented (over process oriented) - didn't work so well on my health. But, I do think that the more we become balanced with who we are we do 'accidentally' expand and open up to things that, at one time, seemed to be our opposites. Case in point - the more time alone I have the more extroverted energy I build up and can use in the world. However, if I tried to 'force' myself to be extroverted (an exhausting and stressful road) it will take me far out of balance and would be disrespecting who I am.

Michelle 2009-07-02T21:42:30Z $item.owner.firstName http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#1899ccf4-ac09-48fa-86fd-c77e0b0a0279 2009-07-02T18:13:34Z 2009-07-02T18:13:34Z

"The right person will come to you if you become more like your opposite" I don't understand why an INFJ would want to do that, or any person for that matter. Isn't what makes us unique and beautiful is being who we are...being true to ourselves? It's like like saying conform so others might desire you. But I prefer NF's...because I feel caged by other types and the desire to be respected and understood is too alive in me.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T18:13:34Z Michelle http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#11b3a911-c7de-4e65-901f-a088c03ca865 2009-07-02T04:04:56Z 2009-07-02T04:04:56Z

Holy Cow Ed, you almost exactly described me and my ENTP husband! Although he is not loud he is everything else you described and we did have other things in common but had to learn that our approaches were completely opposite. Over these years he is learning to be more sensitive (read - notice others exists) and look into his deeper self and I'm learning to be less sensitive to others and play more. It has taken a lot of work/open communication to get this point - mostly on ourselves - and all completely worth it, even when pushing against each other.).

Michelle 2009-07-02T04:04:56Z Rachel http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#3b3c4285-3c82-4d29-9f9b-e9e426994a36 2009-07-02T02:34:52Z 2009-07-02T02:34:52Z

I could never date a gregarious, center-of-attention person! How exhausting! I know I'm personally not compatible with S personalities in a romantic sense. I don't know how they could ever understand my view of the world. T's tend not to work too well either...they seem so cold after a while. For me it would have to be a xNFx for sure.

Rachel 2009-07-02T02:34:52Z $item.owner.firstName http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#087e9c60-8f16-428b-a1b5-637e6b0cb932 2009-07-02T01:01:28Z 2009-07-02T01:01:28Z

True love does indeed overcome distance. Be careful witht the word "soulmates". For an INFJ, an ESTP (the INFJ's polar opposite) would be the compatible partner. Many view the ESTP as spontaneous and out of touch with people's feelings and sometimes incapable of loving. But an ESTP brings more things to an INFJ than any other type. He or she completes the INFJ. The INFJ theorizes and dreams about possibilities, while the ESTP lives them and brings a sense of reality from experience to possibly unrealistic dreams. The ESTP brings a sense of spotananeity to an otherwise "set in the ways" INFJ. Though these particular opposites may argue a lot, they benefit so much from eachother, because they make eachother see things differently and force each other out of their comfort zone. The ESTP maes the INFJ use their senses, while the INFJ makes the ESTP think more deeply on their actions before doing them. The INFJ brings a sense of follow through for the ESTP, while the ESTP makes the INFJ for flexible. It is not that this couple willfully forces these things of each other, but rather, by them just being around each other, they pick up on each others tendencies, they will hence grow closer together, because opposites indeed do attract. This is because any personality who meets his or her opposite knows that they will become a more well rounded person by being with the opposite personality. Of course, their must be some similarities. The two must have a common long term vision. It would be a very difficult relationship if one person wants 8 kids and the other no kids. They must be opposite in personality, NOT CHARACTER. Character is how "good" or "bad" the person is where as personality is INFJ, ESTP, etc. Though ESTP's may typically be viewed as bad characters, they are not. This is because they are simply oblivious often times to social norms, and may not view something they are doing as wrong. Especially for the INFJ's, be forgiving and understanding. The right person will come to you if you become more like your opposite. Don't sit inside all day and read. Go to a bar, dance place, jet skiing, or any place where spontaneous fun-loving thrill seeking people hang out. Be willing to expand your boundaries. Most importantly, be yourself and be honest and straight-forward talking, especially with ESTP's, or you may attract the wrong personality. Look for the gregarious, somewhat loud, center-of-attention, conservatively dressed person. That is likely an ESTP.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T01:01:28Z Michelle http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#8760719f-9fc3-4eef-9d6c-4766fec605fe 2009-07-01T20:49:28Z 2009-07-01T20:49:28Z

LOL! Waylon, for some distorted reason those slips make me feel better..I guess it's nice to know we all in this human experiment together. It's funny how many here mention that their ideas of true love are not usual, isn't that an INFJ trait - to be a bit unusual? I believe in true love and soul mates more along the lines of true connection - a connection beyond the physical reality. True romantic love doesn't have to be with one person forever. I think it is healthier to say "as long as you both shall find deep learning, growth and respect in being together". I rarely use the L word 'cause it means a lot to me but I realize some use it in casual speech. My first husband was a match to me from where I was, as a young adult) but thank goodness we let go when it was time so we could grow in our own healthy directions (which wasn't likely to happen together). My husband today matches me in my more healthy way of being and we felt that we knew each other beyond physical time. We started out as good friends/Kung Fu buddies, if the romantic aspect hadn't stuck the deep connection would still have been there. It is like a garden! And my husband has written that down, "Water the Garden" cause even after all these years and that deep connection the relationship does take "daily" water, clipping, support and of course it gets its fair share of fertilizer from both parties, lol.

Michelle 2009-07-01T20:49:28Z Rachel http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#6742590b-0114-49b7-81ba-6c7733f4d018 2009-07-01T19:48:17Z 2009-07-01T19:48:17Z

Cool, I'm glad it's not just me. I maybe wasn't specific enough...I guess it sounded like I was looking for completion but I didn't mean it that way. Actually, more like the other person shows you what you have not been giving to yourself, and inspires you to want to be a better person - to yourself and others. Mutual growth like the seeds/garden analogy...not codependency. I don't even think you have to be in a relationship with the person...it's just a connection that is unlike others. The Disney-like version of "true" love is so far off the mark, as I'm sure we all know, and I think does a real disservice to what it's really about.

Rachel 2009-07-01T19:48:17Z Waylon http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#02af1d68-9483-453b-ba81-f71d9359b2cb 2009-07-01T13:41:04Z 2009-07-01T13:41:04Z

(sigh)

Waylon 2009-07-01T13:41:04Z Waylon http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#dccab77f-1ef7-4b7d-923a-22ca6b434412 2009-07-01T13:40:30Z 2009-07-01T13:40:30Z

"suual" = "usual" Sheesh, I can't tpye today.

Waylon 2009-07-01T13:40:30Z Waylon http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#79fc6962-142b-40d5-bae0-17e6d1d2f003 2009-07-01T13:38:23Z 2009-07-01T13:38:23Z

I believe in true love, but not in the suual sense. I do not believe that true love is an effortless love. I believe that real love takes hard work and dedication. It's the difference between a) throwing some seeds on the ground and expecting them to grow and b) carefully planting, watering, and fertilizing them, maybe pulling the weeds from the garden now and then. True love is a garden with two gardeners working together. Not one gardener and one seed thrower. Not two seed throwers, either. Uhh... now that I reread that it sounds like some kind of bad innuendo, but that's not how I mean that at all.

Waylon 2009-07-01T13:38:23Z $item.owner.firstName http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#190119a1-a42c-4191-acef-b41da637f205 2009-07-01T13:24:01Z 2009-07-01T13:24:01Z

i believe true love is self love. Where i feed my soul, where i can be content and fullfilled to a point, that i can choice in a more balanced and healthy way, see more clearly the people i surround myslef with. i dont think it is about being broken, more about being lost, or disillusioned, looking for completeness as the responsibility of another person, instead of doing the necessary work within yourself. i loose my way every now and again, but i eventually find the path again :-)

$item.owner.firstName 2009-07-01T13:24:01Z shifting4now http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#c31607fd-9241-4074-b369-5dc1ac5db1cc 2009-07-01T12:59:25Z 2009-07-01T12:59:25Z

Good for you. You're not broken. I think I believe in true love but not necessarily in an ideal sense. I think life and the reality of situations get in the way and although I may feel this way about someone they may not necessarily feel the same way about me. So I believe in how I feel, outside of the reciprocation of that, and I think that could be my "true love that overcomes distance and circumstances."

shifting4now 2009-07-01T12:59:25Z Rachel http://infj.tribe.net/thread/1ba759eb-a572-4cc7-9e0c-07e6193f54ba#b901ea00-cbeb-465e-9464-9834464220c3 2009-07-01T02:31:38Z 2009-07-01T02:31:38Z

Am I the only one who still believes in true love, transcendent love, that overcomes time and distance and circumstances? Like soulmates? I've been burned SO badly, but as angry as I get, I never give up on it. This seems not to be normal...most people seems to embrace cynicism. I just can't do it.

Rachel 2009-07-01T02:31:38Z