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I know that there were some unsuccessful attempts for INFJ at law school... But I think it something I should try. It will cost me an immense pain to go through... (money, hard work...) Yet, I think it might worth it.
So, I want to hear from someone who knows lawyers or is a lawyer. May be I can ask some law company to give me a peek at whats behind the doors?
So, I want to hear from someone who knows lawyers or is a lawyer. May be I can ask some law company to give me a peek at whats behind the doors?
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Re: INFJ lawyer?
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 12:59 PMI thought about law school for a while, too...everyone has always told me I'd make a great lawyer, but I think as an INFJ you'd have to be in something you really believed in, like civil rights law or something. I shied away from it because of all the moral gray area.
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Re: INFJ lawyer?
Wed, February 27, 2008 - 10:11 AMAlex,
My ISFJ father has his Juris Doctor degree (he is retired) and was in actual practice of the law (in the Attorney General of Arizona's office) for about six months when I was just born. He saw such filthy, unethical and downright illegal actions taken by the then state government (things like banging on the door of a candidate for office at 3:00 am then taking a photo of the half awake sod after shoving a naked prostitute in his clumsy embrace to keep him out of the running and to keep their bought one in. All my life my father swore that he loved the law, that he had enjoyed his years in law school despite the actual toll they took on the whole rest of his life by virtue of intensity. He had great expectations that I would follow in his footsteps and obtain my JD (although since he practiced for only six months because of the ethical issues I am not sure why he wanted me to spend all those years facing the same dilema.)
I did not take my degree in law. And yet, whether because of family influence or type, I share my father's awe at the beauty of the law, especially English Common Law, the basis from which American law springs and became sufficiently proficient in understanding the law, it's patterns (it's nowhere as chaotically confused as some people represent) that I basically handle all the court filings in small claims and superior courts that my company needs to make and enjoy doing so.
The moral dubiousness of how the law is applied in real life (as opposed to reading and understanding the law which I love) would have stalled me as would have the lunatic glacial pace at which cases proceed through the system because of frivilous motions and really stupid people part of the process (from plaintiffs and defendants to attorneys and judges. And don't even start me on arbitration. I tried to be cooperative with our local justice court by allowing cases I file to be diverted to arbitration or mediation, and have invariably had a retired school teacher or pilot or some other person who is CLUELESS about the law screw up the decision then have to appeal the case. I actually had one blue haired lady who berated me for the contractual interest rate on the loan I was attempting to collect so she, not only in grave error but with no power to do so as a mediator, declared the contract "null and void," but gave me a tongue lashing and called me a "userer" at the hearing. I now always file a request that we not be diverted to mediation or arbitration "because I will be making points of law during my arguments of which the court appointed mediators and arbitrators either are unaware of or feel that they are above.") I don't expect immediate closure, but if my stuff is simple enough: "is that your signature yes or no" that I still get frustrated over the ignoramuses I had to deal with in arbitration and the distant court dates I am given by the court. If I were dealing with something that actually had some reasonable argument against, or if there were real lawyers there for both parties or (god forbid) I tried to handle a criminal case, the delays would drive me to suicide.
So this is what worked for me knowing that I loved the law but could not practice it in today's court system: years ago I got the Universal Life Churches course in English Common Law (don't laugh the IRS kept them an eternity in tax court and the church won in the end) and from that basis moved on to less "dismissable name" works on common law and read some case law in my dad's library (not much there is a LOT of case law in tomes around the country) at least until I understood terms and sensed that I had it in my mind in a generalized way (it's really just incremental change if any change at all. The Supreme Court has cited the "Federalist Papers" something like over 200 times in determining what the writers of the Constitution really intended it to accomplish and mean.) I keep up with current court cases of interest either topical or geographic to me. I am no lawyer but I know enough to impress small claims judges who (at least here) are not necessarily lawyers either.
In other words I made the Law one of my main hobbies instead of my profession and I'm very satisfied at how that ultimately worked so well for me (I'm 51 years old so It's worked well for decades) and proud of my insight in not having gone to law school.
This is all YMMV IMO HTH stuff, but I feel it is always important to remember we don't have just one choice nor just two choices. We have many. Remembering that frees us to be creative in how we satisfy our needs in a vastly freer way than people who forget and thing they have a mere one or two choices.
Having said that, and returning to Type, I have often wondered if my father felt as he did and I knew I would feel the same way because of both having secondary Fe. I can Fe well, but let me tell you it drains me quickly in regular life. If I had clients I had to constantly reassure over lengthy cases or if I felt that the law was not applied with integrity to serve an ethical and comprehensibly high purpose I would be constantly in the grip (Se for us INFJs) and I'm there quite enough as it is through the agency of just regular non-law people.
This has been a lengthy attempt to address your question from my Point Of View, but if you plan for the law, either formal study or at the personal passion level you better get used to verbosity, obfusication and above all the damned passive voice (lawyers as well as legislators all practically live in the passive voice because it so effortlessly obscures the doer.)
Enjoy the law however you choose to understand it's beauty.
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Re: INFJ lawyer?
Sun, March 2, 2008 - 10:12 PMWow. Zed, you scared me, you really did.
One of my friends also kept telling me that law is kind of dirty place to be in (professionally), but i ignored him thinking "Hey, there lots of different areas to be concentrated in. I can find something quite and rewarding(mentally)."
I also feel that my lack of funds will also keep me out of law school. It might be good for me. I will try to get a job of paralegal (paper stapler job, lol). May be I will get some experience out of that or may be I will even love it and stay there or will save the money for school.
Thank you guys for your responses!
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Re: INFJ lawyer?
Sun, March 30, 2008 - 2:05 PMI am an INFJ lawyer. I work in a huge corporate firm, and for the moment I'm happy. I do a good deal of pro bono work and have recently been involved in the criminal defense of one of the local Democratic leaders that Alberto Gonzales/the DOJ have been going after--in other words I've been helping defend someone who got unjustly targeted by the DOJ. So, that's all very motivating.
I would say there are four ways for an INFJ to be happy as a lawyer. At least four. (1) Work for a cause you truly believe in--the environment, the ACLU, legal aid for the poor, whatever. (2) Be a law professor. (3) Be a clerk for a judge whose values you're in line with. Or (4), work in a huge firm so that you can do pro bono and get involved with some things you really believe in, to balance out the more mundane stuff. BUT, really investigate the firms you're considering, and pay attention during interviews; as NFs, we NEED to be around congenial, basically ethical people, so look for signs of that (or its opposite) when considering firms.
I do like lawyering--it seems like a good fit: someone [a more senior lawyer in the firm] asks me to help solve a problem, I do a lot of reading to figure out how to solve the problem, and then I write up my solution. That's basically the job. Quite suitable for an INFJ.
If you're worried about the cost, keep in mind that law schools do provide fellowships--as a general rule, if your grades and LSAT score could get you into a law school of "X" rank, then schools ranked below "X" are likely to give you breaks on tuition, and maybe even free tuition. For ranks, look at the US News rankings--top 10, top 20 etc.; US News is a good source of info on which schools you could get into, though you need to pay $15 or whatever to view all the info. My brother got into Harvard with no tuition breaks, but the U of Michigan gave him a free ride, so that's where he went. I got into the U of Michigan, but went to a lower-ranked law school where I only had to pay $8000/year for tuition. I also got another fellowship for my final year that paid for that whole year.
So I got a law degree for only about $16,000--not bad, eh?!? Or, I should say $16,000 plus the $1500 that intensive Kaplan tutoring for the LSAT cost. That tutoring is what got me the tuition breaks, because it raised my LSAT score by 11 points. (I only took the LSAT once--you should NOT take it more than once unless you absolutely bomb the first time, because law schools WILL look at your earlier scores, they won't just accept the highest one--but I took a practice LSAT from a previous year when I started at Kaplan, to see what my baseline was. So my real score ended up being 11 points higher.) The reason I'm going on about this is because if you want to save money on law school, investing in a reputable LSAT prep course is the smartest move you can make; it can slash your tuition bills. -
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Re: INFJ lawyer?
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 11:16 AMOMG! That will be so helpful to me! Thank you daleth a million times! :D -
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Re: INFJ lawyer?
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 3:54 PMI am an INFJ in my third year of law school. Law school is fine for an INFJ... I spend a lot of time studying, thinking, writing, and I find it rewarding. As for career goals, I am deeply drawn to public defense--this is from a cover letter I wrote a few months ago:
Recently, my experiences at the Multiple Conflicts Office have strengthened and made tangible my goal. I found, and still find, the role of the public defender to be extremely compelling. To be inserted as counsel and advocate for the underrepresented, and to function as a defender against “the awesome power of the state” strikes me as rewarding, worthwhile, and, at times, great fun. Chatting with MCO attorneys Wil Rumble and Jim Weintre between court proceedings, I am continually struck by the extent to which their motivations and values reminded me of my own. This week, as I put the finishing touches on a suppression motion, I am finding a satisfaction and enjoyment in the work that comes from the feeling that I have found my place within the legal profession.
Also, law school has been good for my social skills--while I still prefer to spend the majority of my time alone, being forced to speak in front of groups has been good for me I think. Next semester I'll be teaching a review course, speaking in open court, and leading a case in a mock trial class. It's sink or swim time for this introvert!
I was accepted to a variety of school, I took the one that offered me free tuition. I'm glad I made that decision, because I'm not dollar motivated, and being stuck in a high stress job just to pay off loans sounds miserable to me.
Would I do it again? absolutely.
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