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I'm an INFJ male recently divorced after a 14-year marriage to an ESTP female. She was extremely insensitive, and on her own. It all became too much. Socionics recommends the duality partner, ESTJ for the INFJ. I've also seen that Kiersey recommends the ENTP for the INFJ. I seem to get along well with ISTP "artisan" types, but, they're kind of sassy and radically independent, too. I realize type is not the only issue in a relationship. However, I'm running into dead ends trying to figure out what kind of girl is best fit for my type. The identical partner (INFJ) can seem good, but they don't seem to attracted to me. I'm confused. Would appreciate some advice. I recently dated an extremely attractive ESTJ, but she was really forceful, hot tempered, whoa. Okay, I'm ready to listen. Thanks.
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Re: INFJ mating Type--Really Need Some Opinions
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 4:58 PMJack,
I would stick to an ESTP. Remember, ESTPs are naturally not the most sensitive people. Think about what kept you and her together for 14 years. By just being around you and her being herself, did she help you top become a little more social? Did she help you to be a little more bold? Did she help you to be a little less sensitive and learn to take a joke? I am not saying these things to offend you. I am just relating to you, as I am an INFJ and I know we are really sensitive people. Your ex-wife may have just been of the wrong CHARACTER. Remember, there is a difference between personality and character. If she was continually doing and saying the wrong things, even though she knew they were offensive and wrong intentionally, she probably was not of that good of character. An ESTP of good character may act and say offensive things at first, because they learn from experience more so than intuition and intellect, but eventually, from experience and being around an INFJ like you will learn to be more sensitive. Also, whoever you date, make sure that they not only have good character, but also the same long-term ideas in mind. You probably would not get along with a person who wants 0 kids and wants to live in Alaska while you may want 10 kids and live in Florida (not saying that you would, I am just giving an example). Having the same goals and being of equal character will save a lot of arguing. ESTPs and INFJs argue a lot, but usually they will compromise over stupid stuff. Big issues will leave a lot of dislike between you.
All-in-all, stick with an ESTP, as you and her will make each other better just by being opposites because you will expand each others boundaries. Just make sure you date one with the same long-term ideas in mind, have the same thoughts on some major things (i.e. children), and make sure you and her are of equal character.
By the way, just take this as advice. Do not listen to me or some socionics website. We all have biases that influence our opinions. Just stick to your heart. Also, do not just be with a person because of looks. Also remember that you have to learn to be more open and desensitize a little bit with stupid stuff. Do not change who you are but be open, or else you will never get along with anyone. Most importantly, as you know, marriages are work. You have to put a lot into it, no matter what personality your partner is. -
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Re: INFJ mating Type--Really Need Some Opinions
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 8:31 PMEd,
Thanks for your response. You don't know how prescient it is. Character difference was probably the key issue that tore us apart. I intend to take your advice to heart, even the advice that says don't listen to advice and just listen to your heart. Agree with that, too. Thanks again.
Jack -
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Re: INFJ mating Type--Really Need Some Opinions
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 8:47 PM -
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Re: INFJ mating Type--Really Need Some Opinions
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 7:40 PMI believe sensors are supposed to be with INFJs. If anyone wants a partner at all, he or she likely wants to be eventually married somewhere in their mind (especially the INFJ). Anyone who is considering marriage is doing so for a reason. The reason is probably because something is missing in his or her life. Why do people feel this missing? Because they have become so set in a certain way of doing things that is not bringing them happiness. Therefore, a person who seeks happiness is looking to complete that something that is missing. For an INFJ, an ESTP best fills the gaps. Being with another intuitive may be fascinating at first, but it will lose luster because the INFJ needs put his or her often wonderful intuition to practical use, which is what a sensor can bring. Without being able to see, feel, hear, taste better, etc. some of the wonderful things the INFJ dreams up, he or she will always be dreaming, and never feel the completeness of their ideas. Marriage or friendships are about making each other better, more open, more understanding, and more perfect. They are not meant to be easy or fluid, which makes them great. They give us a sense of purpose and keep us from being bored and selfish. Opposites attract for a reason. Most INFJs don't even try to be around sensors because they are not "understanding" or "competent" enough to get the INFJ. No one, not even the INFJ will ever understand the INFJ. If an intuitive develops his sensory function better, he or she will be more understanding of objects and people, because he or she will be more versatile and quicker to recognize things and more fully get in depth into the object or person. -
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Re: INFJ mating Type--Really Need Some Opinions
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 10:21 PMSo INFJ's should be with an ESTP so we can be more like an ESTP because we will never understand ourselves much less have another "N" understand us?
I have been married for 7 years and in a committed relationship for 11 to an INTJ and I have to say I would never consider a relationship with an "S" type. I just disagree with you completely. I am not trying to fulfill any part of me with someone else and I certainly am not, nor ever was missing something in my life.
"Therefore, a person who seeks happiness is looking to complete that something that is missing"
I think you should try to find this fulfillment in yourself and not try to "complete" yourself with someone else.
IMO-This is just a very strange concept for me. I have never looked at a potential relationship as trying to connect with someone that can "fill in the gaps". That statement alone would turn me off immediately.
Personally I want to mentally, emotionally and spiritually connect with someone and I don't get that connection with "S" types.
I have known and dated "S" types in the past and it was a very localized experience, physically nice but then nothing...seemed very empty and among the types I know now, I can honestly say they just don't get it. Conversations are blunt, dry and lack projected imaginary possibilities and thinking. But... if I want a shed built I know who to call.
Whatever your choice in mates I think you should be a "whole" person going into the relationship regardless. -
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Re: INFJ mating Type--Really Need Some Opinions
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 1:40 PMDear Shif and Ed:
Your disagreement is at the heart of my confusion. Ed apparently believes in the opposite/complementarity principle; Shif appears to believe in similariy. When I married my ESTP ex-wife 14 years ago, I believed I was seeking someone to "complete me." She was very different, entrepreneur/marketing type, outgoing, "realist," etc... I'm spiritual, psychological, sensitive, caring, idealistic, etc... Eventually what happened, however, was that as I increasingly acted as I truly am, and she acted as she truly is, conflict developed. In socionics MBTI opposites are called "conflict relationships." Socionics calls this the worst in compatibility (of course, I don't know who's behind socionics, but whatever, it's a theoretical application of the MBTI). Eventually, my wife met another man who shared her interests (real estate) and outlook on life, and the values those outlooks suggest, and she left me for this other man. She grew to not care about the world of ideas and all that I'm all about. From my experience, I'm thinking it takes a lot of compromise to make an opposities marriage work--even as I do believe that to some degree I'm looking for someone who brings the E, S, T, P world and approach to my life. On the other hand, I also want to get along, have great interpersonal intimacy, and have a deep connection. That seems hard to accomplish with someone who approaches reality from an opposite point of view. It takes much more work to achieve intimacy with someone very different from than with someone similar to you. So again, I'm just confused. I've met an ENTJ I can really connect with--it's the N and the J especially that makes it great--but, there are other things that diminish my interest. I met an ESTJ I really liked, but yes, she was really dry and after a while, there was nothing there. I liked her J and her looks, but she was kind of tall for me. I'm concerned that if I get another ESTP, she won't be able to understand my emotional intricateness and overall sensitivity and complexity, how I communicate poetically and rhetorically at times. I'm concerned that I'm not energetic/outgoing enough for these people; they think you're stupid if you can't fix the air conditioner when it breaks. That makes me stupid. On the other hand, women similar to my type seem so dependent, and seem to settle for fairly lousy intimacy in exchange for financial and material security. Again, I remain confused.
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Re: INFJ mating Type--Really Need Some Opinions
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 6:50 PMWhat makes you think your husband is an INTJ?
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Re: INFJ mating Type--Really Need Some Opinions
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 6:53 PMWhat makes you think you are an INFJ?
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Re: INFJ mating Type--Really Need Some Opinions
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 6:58 PMIf you got married to this person, then how was nothing missing ever in your life? If nothing was missing, then you would be content and not feel any significant need to better yourself at least through marriage. -
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Re: INFJ mating Type--Really Need Some Opinions
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 6:04 AMI'm not sure that the purpose of marriage is to better one's self...?
Perhaps it's because my best and closest friends are INFP's and other INFJ's, but I've come to expect a certain level of intuitive communication in my close relationships with others. One of my good friends is an ESTP. I love the guy to death, but holy crap does he get frustrating sometime. He's lot of fun to hang out with and we have lots of fun at motorcycle rallies together but after a couple days I can't stand it and want to go and be with someone I can connect on a deeper level with.
This is going to sound really bad but I'm trying to be comepletely honest. I've dated a number of S types, and in the end those relationships were very unsatisfying. I didn't feel that they could keep up with me intellectually, I always feel as if I have to dumb down my conversations and I got bored talking to them. I can only talk about TV celebrities' hair for so long. After that I want to have a comversation about the ways that oreo and chocolate chip cookies represent apartheid in South Africa. Most N types grin and immediately start jumping in to that conversation. S types look at me like I've got three heads. I like playing silly word games. Who can think of the most words that rhyme with phone? S types just pick up their phones and call their other more sensisble friends. I also can't date anyone that I perceive to be significantly less intelligent than I am. I keep thinking, "Wow, it sure would be nice if I could date someone who understood what I was talking about."
I'm with an ENTP, too. This is the best relationship I've ever had. We're different enough to complement one another nicely. I'm good at the things she's not and vice versa. However, we're similar enough that we enjoy intellectual play with one another. Our relationship isn't really much about bettering one another (not entirely true, since we both like to grow as people and we help one another grow). It's more about having an equal to playfully go through life by my side with.
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Re: INFJ mating Type--Really Need Some Opinions
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 11:06 PMI like the challenge of being in a relationship with someone who is more in the world - husband's an ENTP. It took a bit (read: years) to learn each others languages but we were committed to communication and our connection is beautifully deep.
It would never have occurred to me to to look for someone because of their enneagram type or to be my balance or my opposite. In fact it was more important for me to enjoy being alone and getting to know me before I'd open to another relationship. As I became more balanced with myself I seemed to find and attract more balanced people to have fun and learn with then one day one of those good friends turned into my husband, lol,. Although we push each others buttons we do ground each other and create a balance together but not because either of us are missing anything but because both of us are committed to 'working on' being whole within ourselves rather then expecting the other to complete us (although this is something we continue to work on...)
First husband was more like me and it worked for as long as it needed to then we grew up and needed to go our own ways (if we didn't then we would've just become more and more sensitive and the other more insensitive). I think it had less to do with our types and more to do with desire for inner growth and being done with what we came together to do (survive young adulthood).
